Author Topic: Improvement Feedback  (Read 1542 times)

prettylou98

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Improvement Feedback
« on: Apr 16, 2007, 04:50:37 PM »
Well we all know that this weekend was a pretty good success. So far alot of good feedback has come forward. I know for one my team had a great time this weekend, we only wish the weather held up and we could of played on Sunday.
 
But lets start posting about how we can make this event bigger and better. Make sure the feedback and post are constructive. If you see a need to change something, also offer your solution  or idea to correct a problem.

The reffing was great but we saw one problem, when refs entered in the Swat house, first thing we see is their heads. So one suggestion I can make is to have refs wear yellow mask like Dave had from Action Pursuit Mag. I know I took a couple shots by mistake at refs coming thru. That would be a big help.

Second is a big must, PORT-A-JOHNS.  Nearest bathroom was all the way in the front with the parking. Can get uncomfortable waiting for the bus to get you up front if ya know what i mean.

Now I'll give others a chance to chime in here and offer up some suggestions.


HitMan.

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #1 on: Apr 16, 2007, 05:29:28 PM »
Yes please. Just like "PrettyLou" said. Please drop your feedback and comments. So we can make this the best thing that has ever come to tactical paintball. As real as it gets! We want to make it for the players and teams and what they want. So please post. You had some great ideas on game day and we tried many of them. I liked that. Please keep it up and I can't wait to see you all soon. This time we will be on the field..... ;) as many of you asked me, and believe me we wanted to jump in, but hey, we had to work. Next time for sure.  ;D

CRASH

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #2 on: Apr 16, 2007, 05:57:52 PM »
I LIKE TO SEE MORE CLOSE QUARTER ACTION,
IN THE MAIN BUILDING. I FEEL ALOT OF PLAYERS
LIKE THAT TYPE OF ACTION. BUT TOO MANY NADES
CAN LIMIT THE FUN IN THAT. HOW ABOUT 1 NADE PER
PERSON.

Punisher2007

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #3 on: Apr 16, 2007, 06:39:38 PM »
The port a potty issue was partially due to the field itself. I talked to one of the Accurate guys and he explained that the skydiver company that owns the field doesn't want vehicles coming and going (hence the restriction on parking near the field.) This mean that they can't really have permanent port a pottys and even temp ones have to be pre-approved.
This is just a problem with playing on/near a working airfield.

1) All the refs should have stop watches. This is to help with the 2 minute rule. I saw a few refs give more or less time, but it is not really their fault. When I could I helped keep time.
2) The hit rules need to be nailed down, followed and enforced. I saw quite a few people who were hit and went way further than 3 feet, which is what I believe the rule was. Quite a few people did go wandering around the main building looking for a medic. Now, I don't think any of this was intentional cheating, just heat of the moment stuff, but if this thing is going to get televised, we need to make sure it doesn't become a free for all.
3) I agree on limiting grenades in general, however I saw WAY many more dud grenades then ones actually going off. Many were even thrown with great force at walls and didn't pop....
I also saw a few thrown over walls which was discussed as a no no.
4) Civilians/refs/media. I am kinda mixed about the civilian rule for the media and refs. I think it's good because it helps limit ref/media hits, but I don't know if it's completely fair for the players.
The otherside of that is that if it stays, it needs to be enforced more strictly. Some refs may have let it go and trying to be nice guys, but if you enforce it on one, it should be enforced on all regardless of the situation.
5) The extra missions (sniper and demo/medic run) were a nice addition and should be kept, however, purely for time constraints, the sniper mission should be limited to 2 or 3 players per team max, with a requirement being that the sniper from the regular matches, must be one of them.
Alternatively, have teams not playing in the current match run their sniper mission then. 1-2 teams per regular mission. (Maybe start it after the first mission and let those 2 teams go, then cycle/repeat). Also, more control on the medic/demo run. Some teams threw the canister first, some after they went through the hole. Some teams properly taped the victim and the "bandage" stayed on. Others did a quick tape. Make it specific. Also, make sure the victim knows to stop whenever they are not held by the team. A few times, he ran ahead of them. :)
6) There were a couple of accidental overfills on hoppers, but I believe that you will be getting special hoppers and pods, so this shouldn't be an issue in the future.
7) I'd also like to see different missions. Maybe do something like rescue the hostage. Team 1 starts in and cannot leave the main building. They also control the hostage at the start. They are given 2-4 minutes to setup. Team 2 starts outside on either side or both sides if they want. They are given 2-4 minutes to setup as well. Team 2 must rescue the hostage. Eliminating Team 1 is extra, but not required. Team 1 must eliminate Team 2 or hold the hostage for X minutes (5-10) to win. Neither team can kill the hostage. All hits except headshots and grenades to the hostage can be healed. Ideally 2 different colors of paint (1 for each team) so you can know for sure who hit the hostage. At end of round, switch sides.
8) Have 2 different colored paints for each side to determine civilian hits as well.
9) Doors and windows. :) I'd also like to eventually see a much bigger SWAT house. 2 Stories, larger area, more realistic room sizes/layouts. Everything seems to converge there anyway, so you might as well make it the showpiece.

I'll try to think of more later.

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #4 on: Apr 16, 2007, 07:50:53 PM »
Ok guys here goes.  First let me say that every team put in a lot of effort to make this thing the best it can possibly be.  I'm honored to have taken the field either with or against every one of you, I'd do it again anytime.  We Hooligans have converged for a collective post of possible recomendations that we have deliberated on anf feel will increase the spirit of the TTPL, each in their own way. So with no further adu, and in no particular order, here are our recomendations....

As it has been stated before, You should have a closer restroom facility.  Even if its a porta-potty.  For 300 dollars, you can buy a composting toilet that runs on electricity, and it needs no septic system at all, no does it smell.  Build a small building by ther trailer, and set the thing out for special events like this one, trust us, it'll be a big help, especially is there's campers.

There needs to be a set schedule including Meal breaks.

There should be more refs, like 8 per side, almost to the point where they are in the way.  Furthermore, you should have a larger ref pool, so they can rotate out as well and be fully rested and alert. No one likes a tired ref, the get kind of complacent and they can lose focus more often.

There should be a clearly defined spectator area.

Although it didn't happen often, something should be done about bonus balling.  Maybe its because of the three shots to kill requirement, at which point we feel it it should be something like this:
- 1 shot one kill on the head and vital torso area.
- medic able to heal 1 hit per person anywhere else, as long as they 
reach the wounded within 1 minute for torso, 2 minutes for anything else.
- Snipers score 1 shot 1 kill anywhere on the body.
- Sniper hits and Grenades cannot be healed
- Each team member should have two armbads, one red, one their team color.  When a medic heals a person, they take the red arm band.  after that, any hit, is an elimination, and the ref takes the team colored arm band.  At the end of the match, the medic can turn in his red armbands to the head referee for final tally of Medic heal points.  That way theres no duck tape falling off, or bandages not being counted.  Also, the refs can simply count the team armbands that the attending side refs have gathered to know how many casualties each side took.
-Team armbands should be lettered with special positions, in small enough letters to not be read from a distance, but large enough to be read by a ref up close during a certain event, such as blowing the wall.  Non special position armbands should say infantry or squad member.  This way, no one can distinguish special roles to target a specific       role more then others until they witness an action being carried out as show real recon work.

A camping location needs to be set aside and/or cleared for campers.  All campers should be clearly istructed on where to dispose of trash, and what the current policy is on hibachis or pertable charcoal grills and camp fires.

Tactical shields should not be aloud without a clearly defined set of rules.  On the forums it was discussed, but no solid rules were ever put in place.  If they are to be used, rules need to be enforced.
   
Random Chrono Checks should be performed.

There should be clearly defined blast areas/ blast radius rules and all refs should know and enforce them.  Also, refs should break the blowable walls, not the players.  If a player does it, they would be eliminated by the blast.

You should combine the Demo and Engineer rolls.  Furthermore, the Engineer since they can fix destroied walls, should be able to fix the blown wall if someone doesnt secure it like you have to do with the Hostage. ;)

A video playback system should be used.  If a call is challeneged the video can be a BIG help.  However, I think their should be a penalty like in football.  If a call is challenged and it stands, then the team challenging it should lose points.  This will make them only challenge rulings that they know they are right on.

Enforce the Tactical Marker policy.  Almost every single marker out there has a body, or a kit, or a cover that you can get or build to make your marker tactical.  It is a tactical league after all.

Sniper paint should be collected at the end of each game.  This will make a sniper think twice about using rounds where he may not score a hit.

Barrel taps should be permitted.  Its close quarters and these markers are dangerous and can cause serious damamge.  We all know the risks, however, in speedball, theres a bunkering rule on some fields.  Our suggestion is this, if you barrel tap someone, its doesn't mean they are out, but merely a hostage.  We all agreed to the hostage rule at the beginning of this one, so lets clarify the role.  Wheither its a barrel that taps you or the persons hand, you should have to go with them back to their base referee.  if they get you there, you should then leave the field as if you are dead, and carry a points value of 50 points instead of 20.  however, if your team shoots your captor, you are free to resume normal actions.  if they shoot you, you count as dead and the other team gets 20 points for the elimination.

Hoppers should be limited to 30 rounds, Heavy gunners should be limited to 200 round hoppers. In a sense of fairness to Clip fed systems, its only fair. besides, they make 30 round pods, and we were all stuffing our pods to only hold 50, so whats a little more wadding?  In real life,clips hold an average of 25, so in a sense its more realistic.  Also along this note, we agree with the limit of paint ruling, but not the amount.  We feel 300 rounds per person, and 500 rounds for the heavy gun, is more sufficient. Heres the math:

Average player at start:
30rds hopper+10 in pistol+20 in pistol clips+240 in 8 30rd pds=300
Average Heavy gun start:
200rds hopper+10 in pistol+20 in pistol clips+270 in 9 30rd pds=500
Clip fed player start:
18 per magazine x 15 mags+10 in pistol+20 in pistol clips = 300

You should limit gunfire to semi-auto or 3 round burst only except for heavy gunner. its mostly CQB, so you should't need full auto anyway, however they heavy gun should be able to go into that mode in case the crap hits the fan and you need the cover fire.

The field should definately be larger.  We'd say move all the buildings back at least another 30 feet.  Also, you should make sure that the distance to key areas is equal from all distances on each side.

You should combine the Demo/Medic Challenge with the sniper challenge.  Have a sniper shooting at the team of three as they enter the area of the wounded, as if the sniper is the reason hes wounded in the first place, this means they have to get the wounded to safety, and then bandage him, and remove him for the points, however if the sniper eliminates all of them he gets the points for his team instead.

We would like to point out that all the Staff did an excellent job!  We woudn't change them for the world!  with that, the paint was truly awesome.  I've never had paint that good in my life.  Hot one single barrel break for any member of my crew all day long.

The prices were excellent.  For what we got, we say we got more then our moneys worth and we're glad to have paid every penny, it was worth it.  The atmosphere was terrific, everyone was friendly, conflicts were resolved peacefully, and there was an overall level of profesionalism that was just paramount.

There were FREEBIES! What more can we say, everyone loves freebies!

Hope this helps out!  Again, We'd like to send out a HUGE thank you to Everyone.  We had a blast!




Punisher2007

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #5 on: Apr 17, 2007, 04:12:15 AM »
I like the armband idea, but with this modification...

2 team colored armbands per person. Pull an armband for each hit. Once both armbands are gone, the player is out.
For medics/demo/etc, their armbands would also have medic,demo, etc written on them.

Sparrow 69

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #6 on: Apr 17, 2007, 05:24:17 AM »
I like the armband idea, but with this modification...

2 team colored armbands per person. Pull an armband for each hit. Once both armbands are gone, the player is out.
For medics/demo/etc, their armbands would also have medic,demo, etc written on them.
That would work too, however I say the medic should pull the first one, that way he can tally his heals and it doesn't fall to each individual player to call heals.  Also, I did state that special roles should be labeled on the armband, but I also feel that non special roles should be labeled with something as well, otherwise I'll just shoot for they guys with lettering on their armbands.  I heard lots of people shooting at the guys with tape.  I say make them work for the specialist kills.  let them do the recon work to see whos the sniper, and whost the heavy gun.




ERIC BARNES

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #7 on: Apr 17, 2007, 06:23:04 PM »
I like the armband idea, but with this modification...

2 team colored armbands per person. Pull an armband for each hit. Once both armbands are gone, the player is out.
For medics/demo/etc, their armbands would also have medic,demo, etc written on them.

Teddymo

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #8 on: Apr 19, 2007, 08:48:49 AM »
O.K Guys I read through most of the suggestions, numbered each great suggestions and made comments for each one including adding my own ideas.

Here is what we have so far. I have tried to give credit to those who made the suggestions but some were also made prior to so I guess we are all on the same page somewhat. If i didnt give you credit for an idea i am sorry, let me know. Not that it matter per se but it is to show we appreciate all your help in making the games better and more challenging.

Here is what we have so far. I expect we will be having a meeting before November games to hash out the rules, lay out any new positions or abilities and have a solid ruleset for teams to follow for the November games.  I welome everyone who has participated in this league or is interested in helping this league become better to attend the meeting once a final date is set so that we can come up with a final ruleset and vote, agree or continue to discuss future features for the games.


SUGGESTIONS BY NUMBER

1. White Masks for refs – Pretty Lou
2. Refs on either side of demo wall, no need for ref to go through wall - Teddymo
3. One clearly signed entry/exit area with a ref standing by making sure barrel plugs are in. – Teddymo.
4. Paint walls. - Teddymo
5. Port-a-John – Pretty Lou (as per Herc –Airport cant allow portapotty. Solution: Crapper with a the dirt hole with tent around – Campsite standard for camping in the woods. At the end of day you just fill up the dirt; Composting Toilet - Hooligans
6. Eliminate Full auto – 15bps ok, ramping is ok and rt is ok. – Herc/Hooligans/Teddymo – I do support full auto for Heavy Gunner but for insurance reasons it should not be allowed. I do agree with 3 shot burst though.
7. Eliminate Bussing – Pretty Lou
8. Limit nades to 1 per person - Crash
9. Create new position – Mortar, can carry up to three grenades but can only fire them from a bazooka or gun equipped with nade launcher and must have butt on gun on floor when firing. Also The Mortar position can fire nades over the top of a building BUT Mortar player must call for Ref before firing. Ref will give one long whistle blow before mortar is fired so players know “incoming” over top of swat house. – Viper, Herc, Rut, Teddymo
10. Each ref equipped with stop watch for timing medic respawn ability – Punisher
11. Clarify medic and dead rules I.E. What shots do what. EX: Player shot in arm cant use that arm, player shot in one leg cant use that leg. Player shot in Chest – Cant move within body stretch to get out of direct fire. – Punisher, Teddymo
12. Ref rule eliminations should be limited to Bonus balls and not one hit – Teddymo
13. Sniper Challenge: limited to three players per team. – Punisher
14. Sniper Challenge: Player should have to run to different positions during challenge and take shot so time is also kept in score. - Herc
15. Demo Medic Challenge: Limited to two runs as done. Extra Bonus, Players are awarded points based on where the target is hit that is added to their score. One player is limited to 8 paintballs and also has to fire upon a target placed several feet from where medic is healing and will get an additional score based on where those paintballs hit. – Teddymo ( saw Crete Cardino positioning himself to protect medic and thought it would be great to make that player fire while medic was healing)
16. Demo Medic Challenge: Smoke Nade must be lit while pressed against wall and then ignite before wall goes down. – Punisher. Not just running and pushing through.
17. Demo Medic Challenge - Possible Variation on demo job, one player Holds Smoke nade and the other player lights smoke nade to create team coordination. (I Can totally see players dropping the battery like in a relay run) + 10 seconds for wall coming down before nade smokes. – Teddymo inspired by Punisher suggestions
18. Demo/Medic Challenge: If tape does not stay on while hurt player is running the run gets +10 seconds. - Punisher
19. Demo/Medic Challenge: If target is not hit on point area when players running through team gets +5 seconds. - Teddymo
20. Demo/Medic Challenge: If players are not holding on to hurt player/ref while performing run, hurt player/ref must stop running. - Punisher
21. Clarify that there are only 2 full pods allowed per player except Heavy Gunner that carries 3. - Teddymo
22. Specify which brands of hoppers are allowed and to what amount of paintballs a player can carry in gun. - Punisher
23. Carefully map out starting positions so both teams reach hostage at same time – Undertakers
24. 2 different color paints to determine civilian hits – Punisher
25. Enlarge Swathouse – Punisher
26. Set down exact schedule including meal breaks – Hooligans
27. Clearly define spectator area – Hooligans
28. Define kill – Suggestion One Shot to Head or Upper Chest is Elimination.
29. Grenade on Shield: Shield is eliminated from play. Any players with paint on them are immediately eliminated. If the shield took nade hit but no paint on players, all players behind shield or immediate area, are not immediately eliminated but must call for medic and cannot move except to return fire from their knees. These players can still be healed by a medic if he reaches them in 2 minutes – Teddymo.
30. Variate double bands (one red) that is taken by medic or ref to determine how many heals and how many medic heals to assist in points tally at end. – Hooligans: Punisher built on this idea and suggested that the second armband be of the same color. I like this idea and the ref should hold the armband after a heal is made so this prevents cheating and players cannot simply hand their armbands to their medic during a game.
31. Get special armbands that letter each position. Captains are given armbands before game to determine what position each player will play. – Herc working on this one.
32. Define Camping location and camping rules. – Hooligans
33. Random Chrono Checks – Hooligans
34. Define Demo Blast – Hooligans – (I think a thumbs up from Demo player will be fine and then ten seconds from that the wall should be brought down by ref. Also the woods should be cut out to be smaller or sheet rock should be put in, to be broken by player when ever they want. This will increase the challenge to demo player if he tries to break wall but takes fire. Then if he is hit before entire wall is removed, it cannot come down unless other team decides to take it out, then they wont have to worry. This will increase strategy. – Teddymo.
35. One other area for reaching the other teams flank should be created that does not involve any position.
36. Engineer position should be clearly defined – wipe and tape or something so engineer can also make points for the team but it should be a procedure to discourage any cheating. Ex: Player with damaged gun must run back to base where Base Ref will supervise if gun was truly hit and repaired Then engineer will give repair pack to ref for points.. This is useful with Hooligans rule about team colored paint so teams cant cheat and just shoot their own guns. (Red/Blue paint)
37. Combine Demo/Engineer Roles: - Hooligans. ( I don’t like this one since I think that having separate roles makes it more fun during the challenge. But it does make me think it might be smart to make the demo player hold the smoke nade during the demo/medic/engineer challenge and make the Engineer lite the nade. Then when the medic is healing the injured player/ref, either the demo or engineer will have 5 shots each to shoot at targets.
38. Video playback challenge : - Hooligans - (this would be nice but not practical - Maybe for a final or semi final game where cash and prizes are on the line but players can not move when whistle is blown:
39. Timeout or Half time should be defined and there should be a timekeeper assigned the task of keeping time and calling out how much time is left to keep the games moving smoothly and keep teams putting the pressure on. – Teddymo
40. Whistle Blows should be defined so that players know what the sides are.
41. Players should be allowed 2 games v. each other so they each have a chance to play either side, with a third game if there is a tie after two games – Teddymo
42. Elimination Bracket for tournament should be designed. - Teddymo
43. Clear Point system should be designed so that teams do not just sit and wait for the ten minutes. I don’t know what we should do yet but there should be a system in place for keeping teams on the go during games. (Ex Possible flags for each team that are placed thoughout field that have to be recovered only by that team. - Teddymo
44. Create and define Hostage Rules (ex: Players should be allowed to tie hostage up again in one area or at any tree so they can leave if they want, and use the hostage for bait with a sniper) We may be able to create a new prop (rope) or position for this job. If hostage cover player is eliminated, then a team will be stuck having to stay with hostage to keep him from roaming. If hostage is not hit in a vital area a medic can heal the hostage who may die if not healed within 2 minutes. Team that eliminated the hostage will be penalized points - Teddymo
45. Engineer should be able to fix blown wall. – Hooligans (the only reason I don’t like this is that as a ref it doesn’t allow me to concentrate on eliminations if the wall can be built up again, once the wall is blown )
46. Enforce Tactical Marker – Hooligans (I like this one a lot)
47. Sniper paint collected at the end of each game – Hooligans (interesting but will make tally of points more time consuming)
48. Barrell Taps – Turn another player into a hostage – Hooligans: (I like barrel taps rule or hand tap rule because of the close contact but I don’t think it will be practical to follow) We could try this one out, and then the hostage rules will apply. My suggestion is that a team can rescue their fallen player but he then becomes like any other hostage) Rules get a little complicated with this one.
49. Define pod limit and paint limits for each position – Punisher/Hooligans.
50. Make field a bit larger – Hooligans ( I like this but I also like the one house being by the demo hole to counter anyone coming in. Also like in the pictures of Shadow Group, I found that it is challenging to have a rocket attack on the little house through the demo hole and this option should be available to each team therefore one house should be within range of the swat house.
51. Create one window open to each side but not in the hostage area. This creates more options for the sniper position and keeps teams from just guarding the demo hole with their sniper. Also keeps teams from just waiting in their house, as they will have to guard window and will be exposed then within the house. Although rule should be defined that a player who just sticks gun in window and blind fires will be automatically eliminated - Teddymo.
52. incorporate sniper into demo medic challenge – Hooligans – (this is an exciting idea – we should try it and see how it works.)


Note if you come up with a new idea please number it in order so we can incorporate it into the meeting. Thanks

Teddymo
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tomr538

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #9 on: Apr 19, 2007, 05:01:13 PM »
this was some of the most fun i've had a while guys. i had such a blast. i can't wait till november. yea there are a few bugs still but it was still awsome

Wolf Scout

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #10 on: Apr 22, 2007, 12:41:46 AM »
OK I wasn't there, but in looking at the pics it seems there were a TON of 200 rnd hoppers. Did the 50 Round rule go away? I actually thought a 50 roun limit was awesome! I only ask as I am considering using this format in the future as a venue for the TTPL. To me this is one of the things that REALLY set it apart from being a "game" similar to the SPPL fromat. Not that there is anything wrong with that particular league.

(I apologize if this is the wron category to place this under)
« Last Edit: Apr 22, 2007, 12:44:02 AM by Wolf Scout »
-Dave
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Sparrow 69

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #11 on: Apr 22, 2007, 02:53:34 AM »
no, it was still 50 rounds per load.  the refs had everyone stuffing their pods so each pod could only carry 50 rounds, that way no one was loading more then that.  of and if you doubled up, it was a 1 for 1, and since refs were usually everywhere watching everything, you would have been caught  ;)




Wolf Scout

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Re: Improvement Feedback
« Reply #12 on: Apr 22, 2007, 10:43:59 PM »
Oh ok. That makes sense. IF I can ever make it out to the east coast, I will have to check this out
-Dave
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